Tanakh and Old Testament: Why They Might As Well Be Different Documents Even Though They’re Basically the Same Document
If you’re Christian and you’ve tried to engage someone Jewish in a conversation about scripture looking for some common ground, chances are you’ve found the experience frustrating – you’re trying to talk about the Old Testament (which we call Tanakh) and you know that the Old Testament is Jewish scripture as well as Christian, but somehow the conclusions you draw seem to be foreign to the person you’re talking to. This actually isn’t surprising; I’m writing this to explain why. I’m not writing this for Jews because we (I’m Jewish) have less reason to engage Christians in such conversations than the other way around, the reason being that we aren’t evangelical. That’s why there are so few of us. We aren’t evangelical because:
1. We don’t believe in original sin so we aren’t worried about salvation.
2. We don’t believe that being Christian will keep you out of heaven, so converting you to Judaism won’t save you from anything other than an extra set of responsibilities. We pay very little attention to the afterlife to begin with; it really doesn’t motivate us. (Also, we don’t believe in Satan, at least not in the form you do.)
3. Having been a minority for a couple of millennia, being evangelical could get us killed by the majority populations so, if the first two reasons weren’t enough, we avoided being evangelical for survival.
If the purposes of your conversation with us are evangelical, be aware that, for historical reasons and due to our relatively tiny population, we view evangelism as extremely threatening. How benign your intentions are (or how benign you view them as being) is beside the point. You may view the addition of Christianity to our beliefs as an augmentation of Judaism; we view it as an attack on our faith and, as such, an example of anti-Semitism, and we will typically react with extreme hostility. Understand also that, in our experience, most (though by no means all) of the people who start such conversations with us have evangelism in mind, so we approach such conversations with suspicion and caution. If evangelism is not your intention, please make that clear at the outset. The conversation will be far easier and quite a bit more pleasant. (Also, never ask someone Jewish a question that starts with “Why don’t you believe.” It’s logically nonsensical and assumes our beliefs are less valid than yours which, even though we understand you think that – it’s inevitable to favor one’s own beliefs – is still really rude.)
So much for the caveats. There are basically four reasons we approach Tanakh/Old Testament very differently. The first is:
1. Language. No serious Jewish biblical scholarship is done using anything other than original sources which are all in Hebrew or Aramaic (which is linguistically related to Hebrew and uses the same alphabet). Aside from the obvious difficulties of translating an ancient language into a modern one, there are two other difficulties:
a. Roots. Hebrew words typically have three-letter roots, and those roots have their own translations and connotations. A Hebrew reader will get these, but they aren’t always easy to get into translation.
b. Lack of vowels. Torah (the first five books of the Old Testament) is written without vowels. This means that some words can be more than one word, depending on what vowels you plug in. We have to take all possible translations into account, so you not only have to get the subtleties of multiple connotations into translation, you have to get simultaneous alternate meanings into translation, which is basically impossible. The way we do it is when providing an English translation in temple (Reform Judaism) or synagogue (any other branch of Judaism), the translated text literally takes up less space on the page than the footnotes do. (See Gunther Plaut)
If you’re using the King James version, you have a third translation issue:
c. Translation from Jacobean English into Modern English. The King James bible has a reputation as an excellent translation into English,although many words are mistranslated,past,present and future tence is changed in a few places, and the order of the books isn't the same, but it was done into Jacobean English. The meanings of some words in English have shifted in the centuries between that translation and the present, and some readers aren’t aware that they have to worry about English to English translation to get to the original meanings.
2. The Oral Law. We believe that Moses was given two sets of laws on Mt. Sinai: one that he wrote down (Torah) and one that he didn’t. The Oral Law was to help with the written law and also to remain more fluid so it could adapt to change over time better. The Oral Law was included in commentary and in legal decisions. Eventually, during the Roman occupation, the Oral Law was in danger of disappearing because the Romans were prohibiting Jewish religious education, so a famous rabbi wrote it down to preserve it. What he wrote is now called the Mishnah and includes the law itself plus commentary by rabbis about it and Torah and Haftorah (Old Testament scripture after the first five books). Because Christianity doesn’t recognize the Oral Law, there’s a big difference in how we approach Tanakh.
3. Further commentary. Over the nearly two millennia since the Mishnah was codified, rabbis have continued to write commentaries on the Torah itself, the Haftorah, and the Oral Law. As was true in the Mishnah, commentaries include expert minority opinion, so we can trace arguments and see where consensus was reached and where it wasn’t. Essentially, every detail was questioned to death and still is, right down to arguments over single letters in words. Judaism is heavily based on study and this is how. The combination of Oral Law and commentary is called the Talmud.
So, Jews read Tanakh in a different language, influenced by Oral Law, and through a rabbinic lens. Points 2 and 3 have to do with our lens; point 4 has to do with yours.
4. Supporting Jesus with the Old Testament. Jesus’ life is the central event in Christianity and many Christians view the Old Testament as a sort of preamble to Jesus, giving him a framework and proving his inevitability. Adam and Eve are important because they give you the source for Original Sin which you need in order for Jesus’ salvation to be necessary. Abraham and the Binding of Isaac story is important to you but you draw the exact opposite conclusion from ours – we view the story as God’s telling us that, unlike the surrounding pagans, human sacrifice is forever off limits; many of you view it as a preview of a later father’s sacrifice of a son. For some of you, the giants of the Old Testament are Daniel and Isaiah because their predictions can be interpreted as predicting Jesus. Daniel and Isaiah are considerably more peripheral to us (Isaiah perhaps less so), but we also view Isaiah differently - we view him as a flowery writer rich in imagery and metaphor while you view him as a sort of biblical Nostradamus.Isaiah is also one of the books that is mistranslated and tences changed in your bible.
In conclusion, don’t be surprised by how different Jewish and Christian conclusions are from what looks like the same source text.
Comments (40)
This is a really really great post.
I hope you don't mind I am recommending it
Also I want to let you know I will never try to convert you.
@Kristenmomof3 - Thanks.Anything you see posted is not only for the taking,but I encourage people to share them with others.
this is interesting!
@Kristenmomof3 - this helps with some of what I asked you yesterday.
are you two ladies the same religion?
I am the clueless one on this matter
I still need to find time to evaluate why I believe what I believe. But,
@Kristenmomof3 - ::agree::
@And_I_love -
He is Jewish. I am a Messianic.
@Kristenmomof3 - OK, thanks! that helps [a little]
Thank you for posting this, this is a great post.
I will be sharing the contents of this post with my Christian friends, I believe it will open their eyes.
That's why I love talking to Jewish people about the Old Testament. I'm Roman Catholic and I interpret things very differently, it makes for really interesting conversations.
And that's really interesting about all the translation issues. My ex-bf, who was Jewish and fluent in Hebrew, and I were discussing a part of my copy of the Old Testament and he kept telling me it was a horrible translation. I guess he understands the full context of everything since he's read the original, it makes sense now.
I don't do the religion thing, but I respect those who do. Even moreso, I respect people who do not evangelize their ideas (of any subject) to another.
Awesome post.
@haloed - Thanks much. That's probably why I don't have a prob with athiests, since they have people trying to shove their ideas down their throats too.
@Hezakiah4 -
Yeah, very uncomfortable
I do like hearing about religions, cultures, rituals (if applicable) and what not, knowledge is power
and fun
@And_I_love - I'm a he.Six foot three,280 lb bearded humans make terrible females LOL I'm an Orthodox Jew though I feel a can of peas needs a label so you know what's inside ,but a person doesn't.
@theacematt2 - The points I'm making are, 1.If you want to read the bible,read it in the original language or find a translation that is accurate.2. Jews know what our culture,faith and language says, we don't really need or want someone with a mistranslation telling us we don't.Keyword is common respect for all people.
@arenadi - Check out my other posts too. There is more to come as well. Thanks for looking.
@Hezakiah4 - "Keyword is common respect for all people." -- agree.
@imperfect_still - Thanks. Great name there,aren't we all? LOL
@Hezakiah4 - ah ha OK right on!
Liked the read!
@tendollar4ways - Thanks.Check out the others.
This is very interesting. You actually answered all of the questions I've had in listening to my Jewish and Christian friends speak. Thank you!
@NymphaeHecati - You're more than welcome.Thank you for looking.
Good stuff!
informative, thanks
I took a religion course last semester that was specifically about the Old Testament. This just reconfirms everything my professor said. It's all very interesting!
Thank you!
good to know new stuff
I was raised (mostly) Catholic in a small town with very few Jewish residents. We never had the Jewish holidays off or anything like that, so I was quite surprised to find how little I knew about the faith when I finally did meet some Jewish people. I still know next to nothing, which continues to astonish me considering how Christianity and Judaism began as the same. (I don't know why this should surprise me, given the vast differences in Christianity itself). This was an extremely informative post, and I certainly intend to go and read some more of your posts.
From a linguistic point of view, I would also like to add another thought: the Christian Bible did not come directly from Hebrew or Aramaic to English. It was translated through the Greeks and then into Latin before it finally made its way into English. (For Catholics, it was only in the 1960s or so that the Mass actually began to be said in English.) The more languages a text goes through, the less accurate the later readings. In general, I think that if possible, a text should always be studied in its original language; otherwise a great deal of information is lost due to the subtleties of both language in culture. Just my thoughts.
I believe that there is much that every non-Jewish followers of the Way can learn from our Jewish friends in our efforts to understand our own faith better. I believe that the best teacher is one who never ceases to be a student as well.
That having been said, as a believer in Yehoshua as Messiah, I can certainly confirm that a hostile response should come as no surprise when sharing the message of redemption with those of the Jewish faith! In point of fact, that we should be rejected, despised or even persecuted for the sake of Yehoshua's name is to be expected according to his teaching, and a hateful or hostile response might be seen as confirmation that we are on the right track in serving him. Indeed, we are taught to rejoice when we suffer these things. Even so, just as we must learn to expect such a response from our Jewish friends from time to time (or even more frequently than not, depending on where one does one's work), we would hope that our friends of the Jewish faith will make every attempt to understand that what we do, we do in obedience to the will of the Most High God as we understand it.
Of even greater importance, one hopes that our friends of the Jewish faith would understand that those of us who willingly expose ourselves to these things do it out of love, both for the Most High God whom we worship and for our Jewish friends. Many of us experience a similar response from our own brothers and sisters when we speak well of those of the Jewish faith, when we speak in support of Israel and her inhabitants, and when we refute every form of replacement theology. Our hearts are on fire for you.
I have to say I can appreciate this post, because you've explained a lot.
this was interesting. thanks for sharing!
@leaflesstree - Language and translations do make a serious difference like you stated. While the most common bibles are from the Greek,such as the LXX, there is also the Syriac Peshitta. That is what is used by Aramaic speaking Christians and traces its beginnings to the second century CE, having been translated from Hebrew texts. By the fifth century CE though, it was re-written according to a more Greek influenced work and had some changs made.The most obvious one is where they changed the aramaic word for almah (Uleymta) in Isaiah 7 to read b'tulah. But then,that's a future subject for another post.
wonderful post... it explains a lot
You speak of a typical Christian's ignorance of Judaism. I wonder if people living before the Jews had similar thoughts of Judaism (being ignorant of pre-existing religions).
@Ghost_X - Lack of knowledge about a subject doesn't imply ignorance.Ignorance is refusal to look at information and that is not near the case in my opinions nor my post.
As far as existing religions in the time , gods of the nations and the practices of their worship are mentioned, such as the Canaanite and other people's worship of Molech by sacrificing their own children to the "fires of Molech", self mutilation, pagan temple prostitutes, and alot more as warnings not to emulate them. Point is that there were times when Israel did in fact fall away from Torah and do exactly that only to return to what they were commanded to do later again and again.
That is one of the most amazing things about Hebrew writings and scripture.That it records the mistakes, disgraces, and losses to learn from them where nations of that time period recorded only victories,achievements and things to bolster their own national egos for the most part.Thanks for checking out the post.
You forgot to mention that the KJV translators had a poor understanding of Hebrew and did not have access to all the manuscripts that are available today (perhaps they couldn't get their hands on everything at the time and of course they didn't have the ones that were found after it was translated).
Things are really messed up with Christianity and Judaism. Christianity spread through the non-Jewish world, and then people that were not Jewish (and usually anti-semitic in Roman territories) started trying to take on elements of Judaism and Jewish understanding to mix with Christianity. It's no surprise to find out they did it poorly.
@Rejected_Stone - Thanks for taking the time to read the article.Actually the KJV is a rewrite of tye Bishop's bible written to please King James and not a translation of any Hebrew text. Do a search on the net. The translation of the Hebrew scriptures in the Christian book is derived from the Septuigent, which is the Greek translation.The Septuigent was only the first five books (Torah) originally and didn't contain the writings nor the prophets.These were added years later.
Very informative, and very useful for me especially, as this is down the lines of what I'm presently studying. I myself am a Christian, and have been recently learning that it appears many of us Christians, especially in the West, have lost touch with our Jewish roots. Not only do we usually simply disregard the Old Testament, but what we do regard we often misinterpret, as we're reading Eastern writing with a Western viewpoint, for starters. I'm only on the tip of the iceberg in learning this.
In regard to translation issues, I recently picked up a Jewish Tanakh and Jewish New Testament in hopes of getting a better translation. However, for those of us who don't know a lick of Hebrew, where's the best place to start learning short of enrolling in a class? Are there any books or self-study material than can help one get started in the study? How much has the Hebrew language changed since the days of Scripture?
I also attended a Messianic Synagogue for the first time a while back (I typically attend Church of Christ), and that experience was a beautiful eye-opener. The Jewish mindset altogether simply strikes me as a bit broader than ours typically is -- I think we often get tied up in trying to make every issue extremely black and white with a this-or-that answer, whereas I'm under the impression the Jewish viewpoint tends to be a bit more complex.
@The_James_Blog - Thanks for taking a look.The "Hebrew" Christian text pretty much loks like a Judacized KJV to me.Remember that your earlier texts were all in Greek. I would suggest trying to find a translated copy of the earliest Greek text you can find or a translation of one of the earliest Catholic Vulgates.The early versions don't have all the added text from later centuries and that's alot.
Learning Hebrew depends on how ambitious you are. You can find pretty decent learn Hebrew programs on Ebay, but compare what people say about this one or that one so you get what would be best for you. There are also many learn Hebrew for free sites on the web. Here's one to check out: FoundationStone - a free and easy way to learn Hebrew
If you want to purchase a program (no I'm not connected with them LOL) This one seems to have a good reputation
Learn Hebrew - From Alef Bet to Intermediate - Free Video Intro - At Home With Hebrew - Beginner's Introduction to Hebrew
Interesting, most of this I knew. But, it is very interesting. Thanks.
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